While the WMAF pairing is extremely popular for White men. No woman of any race will ever consider dating the sons that result from that pairing. 93.4% of white women, refuse to date Asian or Half-Asian men. This is from the Princeton study Gendered Racial Exclusion among White Internet Daters. It has also been confirmed by other internet dating studies as well as a Columbia speed dating study in person. It is almost poetic justice. I would call it Karma, if I were not myself a Hapa man suffering the consequences of it. WMAF couples are always putting the down the femininity of white women and the masculinity of Asian men. So isn’t it fitting that their own sons are considered Asian men by society, and rejected by all women.
Don’t I feel bad leeching off my parents? They worked hard to raise me, bring me up, give me my needs, put me through college. And this is how I repay them? Didn’t my Asian mom teach me any Confucian filial piety? Don’t I have great shame and loss of face in doing this to my family?
A commentator suggested that I should at least make some attempt to be self-reliant and not just be a parasite on my WMAF parents. They said I was just confirming stereotypes of Eurasian men, being lazy do-nothings. But Princeton has spoken. Princeton says that 93.4% of white women, will never consider dating me, no matter what I do.
I guess I can’t complain. White women don’t owe me anything. And the average white man and asian woman on the street don’t owe me anything. Only my own WMAF parents owe me anything. And I will milk them for all their worth. I advise all other Eurasian males do the same.
I don’t care about my personal choices any more. Oh she seemed to like me. That girl in Middle School called me cute. That beautiful white girl asked me out on a date. All lies and delusions. The fact is, its impossible for any white girl to find a Eurasian male attractive, and nothing I do can change that. I don’t regret anything I ever did. I’ve learned that none of my individual choices make a difference. We Eurasian men are doomed from birth. We are born from a WMAF
relationship, in which both the white dad and asian mom tell us our masculinity is worthless. White men and Asian women already consider Eurasian men to be less than men. But colored men and white women, who have no direct horse in this race, they also feel the same way. The circle is complete. White men hate me. Asian women hate me. And its quite clear that white women also hate me. According to Gendered Racial Exclusion among White Internet Daters it is “surprising” that liberal and very liberal white women, who we might expect to be more open-minded, multicultural, and color-blind have an even more strongly pronounced bias against Asian and Half Asian men. There you have it case closed.
I knew my whole life that white men and asian women hated me. And now I have objective, statistical proof that white women hate me too. I know that the entire outside world is united against me. I will just be collecting welfare reparations from my parents. I will never work a day in my life. I will be a man-child, till my short miserable life is mercifully concluded. These are my slavery reparations. And I’m not going to be a bleeding heart about other people’s problems, if no one in the world cares about Eurasian problems. I’m only going to write about Eurasian male problems. Let other people write about their own problems. Its clear that no one in the world has sympathy for Eurasians. I can’t exactly give foreign aid, when I’m myself in the constant state of racial civil war.
Since I was a young child I knew that Asian man was the worst thing to be. This is why I always showed off my white dad, and bragged about being Half-White. It was not to celebrate diversity and hybrid vigor. It was to say yeah I know Asians suck, but I’m not totally suck. I knew Asians were foreign and as far from America as you can get. I wasn’t quite so aware of all the social and sexual issues. But now that I’m, with a mountain of statistical proof, it makes sense that I have been ashamed of my part Asian heritage since elementary school.
There is no hope for Hapa men. And nothing I can do can change that. I never had a choice. My White Dad and Asian mom, made the choice for me. It is not by accident that I have a White dad and not an Asian dad. The US society has made it so easy for WMAF to happen and so hard for AMWF to happen. Statistically I had a much better chance of being born WMAF. And yet these deceitful WMAF apologists, will list all the successful AMWF sons, despite their huge numerical advantage, to try to convince me that Eurasian men can live good lives. I wasn’t born an AMWF son. Not by accident.
Eurasians have nothing to hope for in life. There is nothing to accomplish. The best thing they can do is nothing. They should all leech off their WMAF parents and take their slavery reparations. This entire society, including our own parents, is universally hostile to the Eurasian men. We are despised pariahs. We are treated like freaks by everyone, including the White Man and Asian woman who birthed us. We are the most unloved creatures in existence. Not only will those unrelated to us not love us, but our own parents are racial enemies to us.
I’m the son of a White man, born with slanty eyes. According to Mongoloid theories, this means that I’m a Mongoloid with Down Syndrome. This is the only possible reason a White man could have a slant-eyed son. His son must have inherited some of the Genghis Khan rape genes. Despite being a white man, he has a Mongoloid son. Since I’m a Down Syndrome retard, you can’t expect me to get a job, or be a functional adult male member of society. All I can do is live the life of a man-child. For I’m a Down Syndrome retard.
jeez, instead of being so negative, try and do something then. If you hate your asian appearance so much, get plastic surgery, change your face, go to gym, get a penis enlargement, whatever.. At the end of the day, women want confident, masculine looking buff men with a sense of humour. You cannot be completely asian looking if you are half-asian. If you hate the way you look, change it, you only live once!
On your other comment you claimed that Asian women hate their own men, with an extremity unlike any other race of women. And you agreed that this was the cause of the WMAF relationship.
As the Eurasian son of a relationship with so much hatred directed against me, what interest do I have in my “one life to live”? ALL Eurasian men can only live horrible lives.
As for me, my only plan is to financially freeload off my WMAF parents as reparations for slavery as long as possible and then suicide. As a Hapa I’m proud to say that I have contributed absolutely nothing to my family or society, and have been an entirely worthless human being. My existence has been nothing but a negative drain on both my parents and society.
Also race-change surgery is science fiction. Most Asian surgery is just Asian women with extremely paper-thin slanty eyes just looking slightly less slanty. There is no such thing as plastic surgery to turn Eurasians into whites. Its not like I decided to have an anti-Asian inferiority complex for no reason, it is women who have decided that Asians are the worst possible men. And my mom, deliberately or not, has confirmed this trend, just by marrying my white dad.
White women will always despise me for being Eurasian, and no Eurasian male has ever mated with a white woman, to the point where I have even claimed they are distinct biological species. My only solution in life is to use my parents’ generous allowance to fund my continuous rants against them.
Since I have never earned a dime in my life, I can proudly state that this blog is sponsored by a white man and an asian woman.
actually, asian women would prefer a good looking asian dude over anyone else. some just won’t admit it because they know someone like that would find them ugly and not give them a chance. that’s why the asian women you see with non-asians tend to be uglier, in general.
If living off your parents’ financial means is your plan, fair enough. I am not going to criticize you for this. Do it by all means as long as they let you. But I think you really tend to exaggerate the problems you say you have. There are billions of people in this world with different facial, racial appearances. There are white girls who date all sorts of men, if a white girlfriend is what you want. With your constant whining, you are not doing yourself any favours other than reinforcing the weak asian stereotype. Stop talking about suicide. Man up, and be a fighter. You can get anything you want. I agree with you on asian female worshipping white men and totally dismissing their own kind, I find it weird and disrespectful to asian men too. But there you go, there is nothing you can do about it. So only worry about things that you have control over. first of all, you do have an identity, you are an American and that’s that. Now be a stong American man, look after yourself, go to gym, get buff, get a funky hairstyle, whiten your teeth, dress up fashionable and all the girls you want will be all over you.
There is something I can do about WMAF, by virtue of the fact that I’m a Eurasian man and not an Asian man. I can collect slavery reparations from my WMAF parents. I can punish my mom for the rest of my life, for the great “disrespect” you say she has done to me.
I can control punishing my parents. There is nothing I can do with my own life. So by being a deadbeat leech I both punish my parents and satisfy my Oriental laziness at the same time. Oriental fatalism about my horrid genes. I have proven that it is statistically impossible for a Eurasian man to have a white girlfriend, and with a life like that, the best thing to do is to be a parasite off a white dad and asian mom.
You’re right there is a stereotype of Asian men being weak, deadbeat basement dwellers. And if White Men want to be the fathers of the next generation of Asian sons, let them take the financial responsibility of raising the most worthless man-children in the world.
I’m the worst financial investment my parents have ever made, and am the worst part of their lives. I’m the biggest mistake of their life.
My identity is Eurasian, and if my worthless life and suicide, helps cement stereotypes of who Eurasian men are, so much the better.
I’m NOT an American and have never been treated as an America. I’m a Eurasian, a hapa, and will never be anything more. I’m glad to be contributing to the trend of WMAF sons being the worst breed of males ever conceived.
What does “being treated as an American” mean?
so your only physical downside that prevents you from getting a white girlfriend is your asian looks? I don’t get it. Any other physical deformities, disabilities, obesity, etc? I don’t know how you look so it is hard to comment. But if you are just an average asian looking guy, I don’t know what the big deal is. There must be some white girl out there you can date. But think about it, there are many people out there with physical deformities, obesity, or just plain ugly. Do you think all white people are beautiful? Hell no. There are some damn ugly white dudes out there. they manage to get girls. Don’t be so damn negative.
The title of the post you are commenting on is itself reference to a scientific study of internet dating that shows that 93.4% of white women specifically exclude Asian and Half-Asian men from consideration all together. This has been confirmed by other internet dating studies as well as experiments in speed dating in person. And it is reflected in my own personal experience by the observed WMAF to AMWF ratio.
From this I conclude that having Asian looks is the worst deformity I could have. Being Eurasian is a giant deal and the worst thing in the world and it dooms me to the universal disgust of women solely based on my race.
I’m an attractive Asian and I find half Asian/white guys to be really attractive..
I actually prefer half white/Asian because I feel like white guys are too redneck like for me and Asian guys are too judgmental. I’m not into white or Asian culture so something in the middle is perfect.
he already said, he doesn’t find asian girls attractive. He is only interested in white women.
Your kids are gonna be one of those “judgy” asian guys
ALL Asian men are like that?
What’s wrong with you?
If you think Asian men are judgmental, what will your half-Asian son think of you, ESPECIALLY if you are a fiend for white men?
Just stop PAINTING PEOPLE IN BROAD BRUSHSTROKES.
So somehow this site came up on google when I was looking up hot Eurasian guys…as a white woman! Shocker!!!!
Author I don’t know how old you are, but most of the posts sound full of adolescent angst. Why so serious?? You can blame your race for everything if you so desire, but nothing is more unattractive than attitude of self hatred and insecurity. You sound so unhappy with yourself for something that seems so insignificant to an outsider.
Disheartening that so many people of the none white persuasion measure themselves against the standards of white society and see themselves worthy if they are accepted by whites. White people are not standing around waiting or begging or measuring themselves for the acceptance or expectations of others…why should you.
White women are not the only group of women worth dating and marrying.
You accuse AW of being white worshipping and yet you you are worshipping white women in the same way. You still seem to be seeking white validation. Why is it so important for you to have a white woman especially when you know that their preferences are racist?
In my opinion all this anti-asian BS stems from the whole yellow peril thing that started within the last couple hundred years..
Did you know that in the past, America(certain powerful groups therein) was so afraid of being taken over by Asians that they heavily restricted immigration from Asia, drafted laws making it illegal for Asian men to have relations with white women and a bunch of other crap?
In the present day, it is no longer deemed politically correct or acceptable to Asian-bash so overtly and aggressively so we now have more subtle attacks against Asians: we have influential forces in society such as hollywood and other media(even tv commercials) insidiously pushing the agenda to make Asian men seem weak and encourage Asian women to perceive white men as a better choice. This influence starts to exert pressure on our minds as soon as we are old enough to watch tv, read books, listen to the radio, even go to school.
Don’t wallow in self-pity as this leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy, instead think deeply about who could be pushing this nasty agenda(it’s the same group(s) that pushed for anti-Asian laws in the past) – what they hope to gain(or not lose) by being so vile and you’ll realize how much better you are than them.
Even though a lot of people still don’t understand it, we are a single human race.
that still doesn’t explain why the most attractive asian women tend to end up with asian men. attraction has a lot to do with human nature, and asian women are just naturally inclined to find a good looking asian dude as superior to any white man. remember that most asian girls are rather ugly themselves and wouldn’t be wanted by an asian dude with good taste.
also, i don’t recall any examples from media where this “agenda” was being pushed. i mean, you don’t see asian women that often in media, and when you do, it’s usually an insignificant character played by an asian actress who isn’t even that attractive. also, most asian women live in areas where there are other asians and see asian dudes in real life all the time, so media is useless anyways. remember that many white actors in media aren’t even good looking
I wish I don’t have to go to the Big Apple knowing everyone hates half asian it makes no sense half asians have to look hot or some crazy stuff to make them like you? I’ll rather stay in Thailand having half thai asians butting after me in school but dad doesn’t give me a choice
Please don’t be negative, your unique, exotic and interesting, sure i also have a semi mongoloid look but it’s something I’m proud of, maybe go to the homrland of your mother, the women there would surely like you
At least you dont look like a boring white dude who tries to be black because wants to be something! You are something! White and Asian 🙂
The author is a sour puss. He’s using his ethinicity make up as an excuse for being miserable. Go outside, get some fresh air, work out…..
I’m Eurasian and have been with beautiful women of every race – especially white women. While all may not be interested in us, the ones that are seem to REALLY be into the mixed thing. I have had stalkers, long-term relationships, one night flings, random compliments from mostly… white women. Most Latina and black women stare at me shamelessly. I’ve dated white women so beautiful that they could be models. TIP: Work out. Dress sharp. Be confident. You will succeed.
Hi there,
I know it might be quite painful reading statistics that show the Facts. The Thing is, these statistics are made to give an overview about a society in which a individual lives. It is utterly most important to view topics in a differentiated aspect. If you have problems being yourself, get a psychologist or psychotherapist.
Regards
Randomly came across your post. Seriously, sometimes it seems like some people vigorously search for problems in their life. You think its hard being a Eurasian man? try being a black woman… seriously, life’s not that bad dude.
You seemingly prefer white women, yet you accuse those who aren’t interested in dating Asian or half-Asian men of being close-minded? Have you ever stopped to think that is everything to do with what appears to be the fact that are a self-loathing person who is ashamed of his Asian heritage? I can’t help but to wonder how your Asian family members feel about this. Then again, they might agree with you.
Instead of having this “woe is me” mentality, you should learn how to love you for who and what you are. You may find it much, much easier to find a woman (even a white woman) who is willing to give you a shot.
lol what a pathetic loser. saying that your half asian side is the only reason youre such a failure disregarding the fact that youre an unproductive manchild leech. youre right i dont think ANY woman of ANY race would find you attractive. and yet you have the guts to tell people that youre better than asian because of your “half-white”ness. guess what? there are lots of asian guys including myself that have dated exclusively white (with many beautiful girls in fact and not because they have a fetish). normally thats nothing to boast about but since being genetically superior to your full asian counterparts is what you hold dear then im happy to tell you that you are lower than even the lowest people. stay in your mothers house crying over your statistics while nonworthless people do something with their lives and keep taking your precious white women away from you. i dont condone suicide but i think itll be hilarious when you kill yourself when all you had to do was stop acting like a baby
Look pal,
It’s seems to me like you have major depression issues because you’re eurasian. Instead of getting upset over white women not liking you, try going after women of different races (Latin, black, Middle Eastern). But if you prefer to only be with white women, don’t lose hope!
I was raised by Latino parents mother Colombian dad Puerto-Rican both raised in impoverished backgrounds. We didnt have the best relationship but always admired their sense of pride and refusal to take crap from anyone. I guess thats where my strong spirit comes from. Im that rare Latina who does get mistaken for some kind of Asian or happa a lot by people who dont know the difference. I want to cry right now because I’m not there to give you the biggest hug and tell you flat out of course youre handsome but you need to see that for yourself. I just recently got out of a relationship with a white male who has blonde hair and blue eyes. It was one of the most heartbreaking expensive breakups ever but totally worth it. I just couldnt continue to be with a guy who dares says “fuck the gooks” just because he got jealous of the attention I was showing my Asian friends who are only friends to me. As someone with long black hair, slightly darker skin, small tits, no as, short, not too many white close friends or Latino friends, I find it so offensive and horrifying that he has that mindset. I’m glad its over between us because I couldnt raise a family with someone like that.
Secondly, happas and more 100% Asian guys are incredibly sexy but I have yet to find one whos genuinely interested in dating me and who I can connect with. I do have a few as friends who I am chummy with. To be honest, I really dont know how to further relate to a engineer, scientist, doctor, lawyer etc. I’m an English major trying to see where my artistic and technical endeavors will eventually take me. I am crazy about my favorite Asian actors like Lucy Liu, Ken Wantabe, John Cho, Lawrence Chou, Kelly Hu who I like sometimes better than what Jennifer Lopez comes out with lol.
If you know any Asian guys who love an animal loving writing, theater, film student, please let me know;)
I think you should forget Asian and White women. Find yourself a strong Black woman or a fiery Latina. Someone to annihilate your depths of despair… and open you to a whole new world of mutual worship and kinky race mixery. Get Vengence on your Aryan white father by filling the world with mutant mud babies who you will love and raise in the way that your father and mother failed; with a strong sense of purpose, unique identity, and personal psychic geshtalt.
And if your answer is you don’t like black women or Latinas… then you really have no room to complain about anyone fetishizing anyone, let alone your parents. Don’t be afraid to surrender yourself to a woman either… love isn’t about control, baby… it’s about something more than yourself. Get out there, get your heart broken, and maybe break a few hearts (if you think you can stand it!)
I agree with this wholeheartedly!
Pairing with a strong black woman, feisty Latina, or sassy dark brown skinned American girl is gonna put any Asian male social status much higher than the hottest white girl.
Date the darkest Indian girl you’ve ever met who dresses in red lipstick and high heels and doesn’t take bull from anyone and you will raise your social hierarchy.
If you can tame a sassy colored girl who isn’t gonna stand for disrespect, then you got a bigger dick than the black man and the white man.
Tame a hot sista, and when you walk into the room you will be the Alpha male no matter how small your “Asian dick” is sociologically.
The topic of this thread? Irrelevant. Your study is BS. You’re simply looking for an excuse to feel bad, because you’re depressed. Guess what’s unattractive? Depressed people. There you go. Pussies that don’t have any self-esteem. Another one of your prominent quality features.
I’m hapa and if this study were true, I’d account for all 7% of the “dateable” half-asians 😉 Besides, there is enough evidence for male attractivity being based on your behaviour and not your looks. You can have a look at PUAs to get “real-life” studies they test on women. Kong from Simple Pickup looks like a fkin Panda but he’s playing the number’s game alright.
You have mental issues. I’m serious. You’re suicidal. Get help. And GTFO with these BS paragraphs. I hope you get better though.
… Biggest self-depreciating bullshit I’ve read in a while. If you’re a troll, your tricks worked on me.
i dont think there no hope maybe get the blasisn girl or the mixed girl of the black and whites she has simallrr problems if u wanna be racist ( get the white looking one) jk lol i think the whiter onse hav less of a problem thrrs more races than that tho theres full races like native american or mexican etc
I’m sorry that you’re feeling so much pain, but I think you’re misdirecting it at your racial mixture. I’m a conventionally attractive white woman in a long term relationship with an east asian man, and I know several couples with white women dating asian and half asian men. My downstairs neighbors are a black woman asian man couple. Even though it is odd that there are certain trends in interracial dating and racist stereotypes do exist, your dating prospects are certainly not hopeless! Please try to seek some professional help for your depression.
ps- I also have several white/asian biracial friends and none of them have such a negative outlook, so I don’t think your mixed heritage has predestined you for failure as you seem to think.
You are 100% RIGHT in what you’re saying. As a part Asian woman age 35 all I’ve ever experienced from men is rejection. Time and time again I’ve been rejected in favor of white women – no matter how unintelligent, slobbish, unkind, unhygienic, even outright sociopathic. Time has proven to me that ANY white woman no matter how poor her character or appearance will ‘win’ the guy. My fate has been to be up chosen, left behind to bear witness to mediocre women getting chosen over me time and time again.
PC, naive people try to rationalize a lifetime of failure as the result of an ‘attitude’. Bull fucking shit! It all boils down to a mix of hormones/appearances. Simply put, what I have to offer in that regard is NOT what the human race wants. People like us are abominations – the cruel result of fetishes that should never have resulted in offspring. Race mixing is selfish, reckless, and should be outlawed. Asians and whites in particular shouldn’t breed.
To any bleeding heart who tries to argue otherwise, look up the SCIENTIFIC data on the devastating effects race mixing has on the mixed race persons health, emotional wellbeing, etc. Facts are facts and nature doesn’t lie.
Sorry to hear your dating story but as you say, facts don’t lie. The sad thing is you are most likely a wonderful partner and would make a good mother. As a male hafu I always dated white women and married white. Now I repent at leisure. By the age of 50 most of these white ladies have gone mad, having gone well past their use by date. I wish I had married a healthy female with good moral character.
The truth hurts but it can also set you free. I am grateful to know that 93% of white women will not even give me the time of day online. So now I know why I never got any responses from anybody online. I’m an older Asian-looking hafu BTW. But online is only one way to meet people and it’s one way that I don’t bother with.
I am a 60 y.o old Asian-looking bald hafu who teaches refugee women and some of those Asian women practically throw themselves at me. OK, so I know they are the “bottom of the totem pole” in the genetic / dating market but you know, mate we all have to find our own level at some point in life.
You have to start somewhere. Start with a low level woman and work your way up. You can practice your skills on level players. Heck, I even practice my approach skills on lonely old men! That way I can overcome my approach anxiety.
Start at the bottom by chatting to lonely old men; then you move to old ladies; then middle aged men; middle aged ladies. Then young men and before you know it you are chatting up the beautiful sexy babes you lust after. This is called exposure therapy. Get out into the real world and talk to some lonely old immigrant ladies then work up! At some point you will get “pushback” that’s when you know you have reached your limit. Then you just go one level down and you have found your comfort zone.
Just an hour ago I spent over ONE HOUR chatting to a 50 y.o. hafu female I met while on a quiet walk near my house. She gave me her name, address, telephone number and email. OK she was with her husband and she is happily married but the point remains, you have to get out there and practice your social skills. Take a friggin risk mate! It won’t kill ya.
Sorry you’ve had this experience. It would literally never have been on my radar. I’m one of the other 6% of white women I guess – and always felt a preference for Asian/Eurasian men. I’m a southerner and find it more comfortable to date people who have a culture of being close to parents and family and who are culturally taught to have a certain amount of respect for elders and education.
Also, in physical appearance, I feel about Eurasian guys like the average white guy seems to feel about Eurasian and Asian women. Just, yum. And then I feel bad for it because that’s… kinda fetishised & racist when you think about it 😦
That has been true of most of the Asian/Eurasian guys I’ve known.
If it helps, I have heard some stereotypes among other white women talking amongst ourselves. I’ve heard other white women say that black guys may just want you as a trophy, and hispanic guys will treat you in a sexist way. But I’ve never heard anyone say anything negative about any particular multi-racial groups, including Eurasian men.
Not saying it doesn’t happen anywhere, just that I haven’t heard it. So maybe there are demographics of white women more open to multi-racial dating than others.
I’m a white female and LOVE Eurasian & Asian men. I dated a Chinese man for a long time & fell pregnant to him. If my child was alive today, it would be 20 this year. Anyone who doesn’t see the beauty in Asians or Eurasians is crazy IMO.
Oh & did I mention I have 4 half-siblings that are Eurasian?
I agree with you – and as much as other commenters try and refute some of your arguments and pessimism, there is a lot of truth in the things that you say.
I’m not going to try and refute the fact that 93% of white women might reject Asian men simply based on race. That statistic is probably true.
The reality is that women just reject men all of the time for whatever reasons, not just race. I don’t have any empirical evidence on how frequently women reject men, but I would suspect that women probably reject about 99% of advances from men.
So if you take a 99% rejection rate from women, and 93% from white women to Asian men, the odds are without a doubt against you against getting a white woman. It’s the nature of the game.
There is reason to be pessimistic, but the numbers don’t mean that nobody ever means in Blackjack. And until the color “Green” comes up on the Roulette table, I highly recommend massage parlors 🙂
Not that this means anything or that it will mean anything to you, but I’m a white woman and I’m attracted to Asian men. I always have been. I’ve had a couple of huge crushes on Asian friends of mine, but they only likes my Asian female friends. I think there is a bit of misunderstanding on both ends. I think that white women don’t think they will be attractive to Asian men. I have alway thought that I was not thin enough to be attractive to Asian men (I’m not overweight, but I’m not tiny).
Asian women should reconsider their selfish race worshipping before they have children
NO ONE OWES YOU OR ANY OTHER HALF BREED ANYTHING.
JUST STOP WHINING.
WE KNOW IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
WHEN YOU WHINE IT MAKES YOU MORE PATHETIC.
YOU MUST REMAIN CHILDLESS.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU AND OTHER HAPAS CAN BE HELPFUL
Why get stuck in a Western world that despises you? Why not go and live in Asia, where Asian is the norm? Or are you too good for Asians?